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The past two weeks we have had some fierce debate about ‘music piracy’. Loz Kaye from the Pirate Party who see the legislation against free downloading as an attack on civil liberties. In this blog he explains his parties take on the situation.

The Pirate Party. The political home for musicians”¦?!

It seems my intervention on the blog thread about ‘Internet music piracy’ caused a bit of a stir. I’m getting used to turning up to events now and saying ‘Hi my name’s Loz Kaye and I’m from the Pirate Party’ and seeing people look nervously around as if they should secure their wifi. Or possibly their handbags.

That said, we at Pirate Party UK are not just about kids wanting free stuff. Essentially we are the first genuinely 21st century political movement, emphasising online freedom, creating balance between music fans and creators, and civil liberties. We are the only Party to have culture and technology right at the heart of our programme- as this will be the way out of the mess we are in now. At least it’s sure as hell not going to be manufacturing or “financial services”.

The Pirate Party movement was kickstarted by the raiding of the Pirate Bay site premises and the success of our Swedish counterparts, who currently have 2 MEPs. The question was, if you are unhappy with how things are- what do you positively do about it? Most people now accept that copyright and intellectual property have no longer kept pace with development. Hell, even lawyers I talk to admit that. Pirate Party UK wants to bring common sense back in to the law.

We would like to see an end to laws such as the Digital Economy Act which will attack music fans, bring in powers to censor websites and chuck people off the Internet. We want to help musicians and other content providers by ending Digital Rights Management that stops fans buying content from other countries, and drives them in to piracy. We want to bring the Internet in to line with what we already do with photocopying, recording programmes and burning CDs by giving a right to fileshare for non commercial purposes. One of the main things that we reject is that there is an automatic distinction between artists, ‘good’ / paying music consumers and ‘bad’ filesharers / pirates. I know I could never have become the composer I am today without taping half of the contents of Plymouth City Music Library as a teenager. Strangely enough music survived in to the 90s.

As things stand the music industry is obsessed with so-called piracy, and portrays its lobbying as defending musicians. The truth is of course, that it is only pressing for action and laws that will benefit those with fat recording contracts or ability to pay a lawyer. We in the Pirate Party are the lone political voice pressing to show the recording bosses arguments are based on a false idea- that a free download equals a lost sale. I won’t bore you with the maths now, but I will take you through it if you really want me to. What we despair about is that politics is dominated by people who have no experience, or seemingly often no interest in, the arts and technology.  It’s only by dealing with the world as it really is and how it is constantly changing that we will be able to continue to work as musicians- not by clinging on to the old models of the past.

I think what we have all come to realise is that these issues go wider than the right to snaffle some flesheatingvirus-awful R’n’B track. If you believe in opening up rights to the third world to get affordable drug treatments, then you think like the Pirate Party. If you believe that maintaining an uncensored Internet is vital to be able to support democracy campaigners in the Middle East, then you think like the Pirate Party.  If you support an open and transparent society, where ideally we wouldn’t need a Wikileaks, then you think like us. If you want the right of the poorest in our society to get a chance for a proper education by having access to the latest technology”¦ you get the picture. The importance of having a political party is you get to set the agenda.

The last few month have been an exciting and a depressing time in both music and politics from my point of view. Even this week I’ve see projects I’ve been counting on suddenly get shelved to next year because of funding worries. But I have also seen a huge growth in activism and people expressing independent points of view. 
Possibly like many of you I had despaired of the main parties ever taking up issues I care about, let alone trusting them. To me personally, the Pirate Party felt the right place to end up- for the very reason that I am a musician. I need a place politically that is ready to fight the real battles of musicians, to stand up against arts funding cuts, to battle for freedom of expression which is at the core of all art. Hoping to see some of you on the pirate ship”¦Â 

Loz Kaye- Leader Pirate Party UK.

51 COMMENTS

  1. I agree to the extent that it is ludicrous to have politicians who know just about nothing about the ‘digital world’ creating the laws on it. I also accept totally that sharing music is and has been a force for positive sales and promotion – if my mate hadn’t lent me some reggae CDs 15 years ago which I copied, I maybe wouldn’t have spent the money I have done on dub. If I hadn’t been lent an indie compilation when I was 11 from someone’s big brother, then maybe I wouldn’t have heard bought half the things I did in my teens.

    What I find odd, given the debate you walked into is that you don’t really offer any answers about how your average indie artist gets paid? I can see your argument that musicians must embrace change and it’s no use trying to turn back the clock, but where is the model that lets the artist get some food on the table? What are your thoughts about this? How does someone go from being ‘no-one’ to ‘someone’ – What model do you think could allow both consumers (vomits sponteniously) and artists to have the balance right? – e.g. someone creating a worthy piece of art can get some recompense for the music that takes up the energies, and the bodies, and the hearts and the souls and the time and the minds, of young men, who give what they have to it, and give everything they have to it?

    Otherwise, and I’ve read this debate with great interest, from the position of an outsider, a music fan, not a musician, I can very strongly understand the argument that young, working class people will simply not be able to make certain kinds of music, as it will be a luxury afforded to only those who can subsidise themselves for long enough – I’m utterly in favour of the destruction of capitalism, I’m just also quite keen that we aren’t just walking into a situation where actually, all we are doing is devaluing art itself in the name of ‘liberty’ and, as many pointed out, raising the value of technology, multinational corporations who give us the means to consume all this free ‘art.’

  2. Basically Loz and the Pirate Party want to make a living from our tax money for saving the world and bringing democracy to the Arab countries. Very noble stuff.

    I love it when you guys talk about file sharing being a human rights issue.
    This is a slap in the face for any real human rights activist.

    You should be ashamed of yourself.

  3. A load of idealistic talk without actually proposing any solutions. You have succeeded in being a politician!
    The human rights stuff about the middle east is a bit shallow though, there’s a few more important issues to take up before the Internet over there. Again another move by a politician. This article is more of a cheeky recruitment ad than a response to the debate. Where’s the link to a think tank or forum for discussing possible solutions? Show me that and I’m there.
    The reality is that the majority of people will take something for free if they can, money’s tight. So what areas are left for
    Musicians, seems like there’s only live performance and merchandise left so these are the areas that we can earn from. Selling songs to advertisers makes me nauseus but I can understand why if you have to make a living and it gets your song out there. Maybe it’s a choice between the heart and the head. I’d like to see the cutting out of the middle man and crowd sourcing as a way of people earning money, digital busking if you will but is there a reality in this or just a utopian mirage? The record label majors no longer have the exclusive access to recording music or video but they do have access to marketing budget and contacts that most
    Musicians can’t afford. That’s the key to making a living out of music in my opinion, it’s looking for a way to prize this from the old schools steely talon. Or better still create a bypass…?

  4. Pirate Party, get over it. Societies have laws. They have laws for a reason – they protect people. If you wish to change the laws, starting a political party and getting voted into a position where you can change legislation is a great idea, and the right way to do things. That’s all fine. What is NOT fine is encouraging people to break existing laws simply because you don’t like them, or because you think those laws are unfair. Filesharing is illegal, it is illegal because it breaks laws which were passed by the freely elected representatives of democracies. Not every law that is passed is popular, but we accept that democracy has limitations, and that it creates a better society than a lawless free-for-all where illegal activities go unpunished. THIS is why we can go about our daily lives, working, playing with our children, being free to become what we want to be. This is why we can do our work, even when it doesn’t produce anything physical (taxi drivers, nurses, teachers, callcentre employess etc) and yet we can trust that our employers will remunerate us for our work, rather than tell us ‘hey, you don’t actually LOSE anything if I choose not to pay you, so therefore it’s not theft’. If you can get a consensus together to change the law on intellectual property and copyright, you go ahead. That’s poltics, that’s democracy. Until you do so, you DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to distribute the copyright-protected material of others. This is, as you say, not just about musicians, it’s way bigger than that. I agree with you on that. It is about bigger things. It’s about society, morality, abuse of the wishes of the people who ask you to desist, about law and about the serious long-term psychological damage a person can do themselves by knowingly, and repeatedly doing something that they know is wrong. Laugh at the last one all you like, but it’s actually the most important of the bunch. As for home-taping. Don’t be so disingenuous. There is a huge difference between friends taping something for each other, and building a tribal sense of fandom and inclusion in the process, and the impersonal, sterle process of going to PirateBay, downloading a thousand albums and listening to three or four of them. Home taping had exactly the benefits of ‘free publicity’ that filesharers are constantly attributing to internet piracy as their conscience-salving stock-phrase, P@P and filesharing do none of that. Please stop preaching to the choir with your outmoded defences. The debate on filesharing and piracy is active and sophisticated on both sides. You seem to have missed the last two years or so of its development. Or are trying to pretend that you have. You’re not only an insult to musicians and content creators, you’re actually an embarassment to the many filesharing advocates who have actually brought some decent reasoning and debating skills into the issue. Human rights activist! You pathetic little coward. Human rights activists put themselves into danger for their cause. You’re nothing but a pathetic self-justifying scrounger.

  5. Like Density Of Sound above, I’ve been wondering about the practical side of all this. In fact I was talking about it with Johnny Navarro of Devilish Presley just recently on Facebook, with reference to Dave Allen (former Gang Of Four bassist) and Amanda Palmer (former Dresden Doll), both of whom recommend various methods of putting music out there for free while still making a living out of it.

    .

    I don’t think I can link directly to the thread, because Farcebook isn’t sophisticated enough for such Big Science. But you can see what we said if you go to http://www.facebook.com/misadventures.in.modern.music and scroll down the wall until you see Johnny Navarro. Jump in there… (we start by talking about Farcebook itself, but don’t let that put you off).

    .

    It seems to me there are two questions here that nobody can answer. If the future business model for musicians is basically going to be ‘Give the music away free – sell everything else’ (as Dave Allen would have it) – what’s the ‘everything else’?

    .

    And it’s all very well for musicians to claim that DIY is the future (as Amanda Palmer would have it) when they’ve had a successful career and built up a hefty fanbase as a result of a previous stint on a major label. It’s easy to survive and prosper as a DIY artist when you’ve still got the momentum of a conventional music biz career behind you. But what about those bands who’ve been DIY from day one? How do they build things up to that critical mass point?

    .

    I would love to boot the music biz into irrelevance. It’s a lumbering dinosaur that would be much improved by swift extinction, if you ask me. And I’m not against the idea of shoving MP3s up on the web for free – it’s a good way for bands to get their music heard, which is surely the fundamental thing. After all, if nobody hears the music in the first place, nobody moves one inch forward. But what comes next? What, in clear, specific, detail, is the future business model?

    .

    If the music is free, what do you sell? And without the machinery of the music biz working for you, how do you sell enough of it to live?

    .

    I think we need a bit less of the high falutin’ statements about freedom – that’s a red herring. There’s no debate there: nobody’s arguing against civil liberties. We just want to know how we can cut the crap and make some cash.

  6. @Michael Johnson. Totally agree, this is where the debate is at and it’s not so much a debate as a brainstorming of ideas to move things forward. The DIY problem is exposure and reach, it’s the last bastion of the majors and needs taking down or working around. The rest is red herrings and alternate agendas at best.

  7. I think illegal downloading is on the wane anyway. Why risk killing your computer with viruses when you can listen to just about anything online anyway? Sites like Spotify and Youtube are just as much to blame for people not buying as the pirates.
    There will always be a market for physical copies of CD`s and Vinyl, it`s just that bit smaller and not making the majors as rich as it used to.
    Sadly, like any business during hard times, it`s the little guy who suffers the most. We just have to get more creative in the way we sell our music and concentrate on quality, not quantity.

  8. “I love it when you guys talk about file sharing being a human rights issue.
    This is a slap in the face for any real human rights activist.
    You should be ashamed of yourself.”
    CIVIL LIBERTIES. He talked about it being a civil liberties issue. Different thing.
    (It’s very frustrating watching a well-reasoned argument being misquoted and mis-taken, so that the debate becomes a series of correcting misunderstandings rather than moving on.)

    Col is right about file-sharing being on the wane: it will all be about streaming services soon. The model of ownership (which file-sharing replicates) looks like it is on its way out: why have a library on your own hard disc when there is a massive library of sound out there? There’s a good chance that Spotify and other such services will turn a profit soon and musicians can start to earn that way.

    Finally about sharing being illegal: that seems to me to be such a ridiculous argument. Quite apart from the fact that copyright laws are based on old models and quite obviously need updating, just because something is il/legal doesn’t make it wrong/right: surely you know this? Ask the UKUncut lot. Ask anyone battling for reform. Laws are made the best they can be at the time but they are constantly being refined. They are not moral absolutes.

  9. @Lucy What’s ridiculous about suggesting that people adhere to laws until the point comes that a majority decides that those laws are changed? This is what bothers me about this and every other online debate. A centuries-old system of law, democratically implemented, subject to the same law-making and repeal process as every other law, is somehow to be respected less than every other law out there because a) it’s easy to break and not get caught, and b) some people feel it needs updating?
    I’m not correlating law and morality. I separated the two. Whilst I personally feel that taking and distributing the intellectual property of someone who expressly asks me not to do so is a moral wrong, there are clearly many out there who can convince themselves that it is not. I can’t do anything about that except wish they would stop. However, on the issue of the law, filesharing is illegal. When we choose to live in a society, we benefit from the laws therein, or not. If we believe that the laws of that society are not of benefit to us, the correct response is to a)get those laws changed or b) leave that society. Alternative c) break those laws is also an option, but only if the law-breaker has the integrity of conviction to face the penalty of that lawbreaking. That’s what gets me riled when filesharing is portrayed as an issue of civil liberty, or an act of civil disobedience. It would only be such if the perpetrators were willing to have their statement of disobedience punished by the laws of the land. That’s protest. Skulking behind the fact that law-enforcement agents are too overstretched as they are, skulking behind internet anonymity, skulking behind a self-justifying belief that filesharing only hurts the bad music corporations (man) or the musicians who aren’t ‘creative enough to find a new model’ is an act of pathetic cowardice.

  10. Sean: I do take your point, but I’d argue that the tide HAS turned with that particular law. It’s unenforceable, it’s outdated, it needs reform, millions of people break it casually every day (that’s just data, not approval!). Getting the law changed is a process; debating the issues is part of that.
    I don’t actually think that “filesharing only hurts the bad music corporations (man) or the musicians who aren\’t \’creative enough to find a new model\'”: but it is a fact of life now.

  11. Dear Lucy,

    I said “you guys” – meaning The Pirate Party. And to me comparing file sharing on Pirate Bay with bringing democracy to Iran via Twitter is absurd. That was my point. And you know very well that they blow their points up more each time they don’t have an answer to the important questions.

    When it comes to their own computers, they scream about cops invading their privacy, when it comes to YouTube only paying the big labels and publishing companies a tiny microshare royalty for content and not paying the rest who fill YouTube with content, they scream about civil liberties, human rights and whatever else sounds good.

    I find that the politicians of our time are only representing big multinational corporations.

    In capitalism NOTHING is ever free and comes at a price. In case you haven’t noticed.

    If we want to get rid of that system, fine, but that’s another discussion.

    Until then workers must get paid. If we all want independent and new musicians to keep innovating and push music forward, we need to develop a way so they can have control over their own work and are NOT forced to give their music to ads or take government funds. Corporation and government funded art always dies sooner or later, because you need to empower the artists and must not enslave them. Creativity doesn’t work like that otherwise.

    We see that happening: New artists can’t survive. That is a fact. They are a number in a telephone book, nothing more.

    The Pirate Party is driving their ship to an environment in which the powerful can just access and exploit any creative content they want. Did you see the microsoft advert stealing/immitating the Arcade Fire song?

    http://stereogum.com/629931/microsoft-blatantly-rips-off-arcade-fire/franchises/commercial-appeal/

    That is the real danger, because in the world of the Pirate Party, Arcade Fire wouldn’t even get a share of that.

  12. @Lucy Well, that ‘it’s a fact of life now’ is often mentioned too. But so was drink-driving before it became illegal. Benzedrine (crack) was a socially-accepted drug in the 20s before it was made illegal (of course it’s still available, but it’s marginalised), there are other examples. The thing is, a lot of people never get stopped by the police for drink-driving, but don’t drink-drive because the possibility exists that they *might* get stopped, and would be punished. Law-abiding citizens don’t adhere to laws because they constantly have a police-officer following them. They abide by laws for many reasons, but knowing that there is a good chance of being punished for transgression is one of those reasons. It’s not about whether a law on filesharing can be enforced, it’s about the *possibility* of it being enforced. That’s why no-one gives a damn about being caught right now, because tehy know they have until June before even the first of the three-strikes letters go out. However, to take this out of the realm of conjecture and into solid facts, anti-piracy laws were implemented in Sweden and South Korea in 2009. They are the first two countries to have full-year results to illustrate what happens after legislation. In Sweden, music sales reversed a decline of 22% in 2008, to a growth of 10% in 2009. In South Korea, the growth was 11%. Notably, the biggest growth in the South Korean market was in home-grown, Korean music acts. Those figures are the only accurate full-year reports available, but they are the reason why the music industry is so fixed on getting anti-filesharing laws enforced. Amongst all the conjecture about the other reasons for music sales declines, all the proposals about filesharing being a positive force on the market, etc, the figures speak for themselves. Make filesharing illegal, and some people will still do it, but most will go back to buying records. Those were the only two countries in the world who brought in anti-piracy laws that year, by the way, and the only two countries in the world where music sales did not show a decline that year either.

  13. Good points, Sean, by far the best argument for heavier legislation made anywhere on this whole debate. But freedom of information is still more important than record company profits and I don’t think that restricting the flow of data is the way to combat the problem of livelihoods being in danger, which they are for many other reasons than file-sharing. I wonder how much difference the average Swedish musician has seen to her/his wage packet? This is a transitional time: the amazing things about freedom of information, music being shared so that people can hear anything, anywhere: these things will remain.
    Btw, benezedrine (speed, not crack)/amphetamine is still legally used in the pharmaceutical industry: it is allowed to be sold as medicine but not to be used recreationally. Prohibition doesn’t work.

  14. It’s not about major label profits. This is all about the death of the underground labels and bands who are not from rich backgrounds struggling to survive. It’s also about Google making massive profits and becoming the new major labels and people like the Pirate Party making, frankly, bizarre claims to fighting for freedoms.
    The only freedoms I see here are people working for free!

  15. As far as I can see, the fundamental tenet of the Pirate Party manifesto is the freedom of the internet. Freedom from state or corporate intervention (hence the Egypt ref). I’d go with that. This is a real and important issue.

  16. It’s not about dissecting the argument and point scoring it’s about moving forwards, coming up with ideas and debating their merits. As Lucy said the debate becomes a series of correcting misunderstandings rather than moving on.

  17. I am for less internet regulations.

    The laws the Pirate Party is promoting here will lead to the corporations teaming up with governments to take control and turn people into passive consumers again.

    The threat is not the kid in the bedroom sharing a file (which really means ‘downloading’…If we’re honest here. One guy puts it up, and millions just download it…to use the term ‘sharing’ is already misleading. The majority of people don’t ‘give’ anything).

    The danger comes from the big companies who make their profits from the current situation. Apple wouldn’t have had such a success with the iPod if it wasn’t for ‘free’ music on the internet. People wouldn’t use Google if they weren’t searching for mostly creative content (I see ‘science’ also as a part of the debate by the way. This all falls in the category ‘creativity’). Same with YouTube.

    They all fight over having the control over creative content. I think the musicians should have it!

    On the issue ‘transparency’ – there is a good film called “The Lives of Others”. Watch it, then read the above article again.

    I am surprised that the Pirate Party UK is saying Wikileaks wouldn’t be ‘needed’.

    Wikileaks would ALWAYS be needed to expose hidden crimes and show conspiracies.

    A society where no whistle blower is ‘needed’ will never exist. And if it was, it would mean the end of freedom.
    This is dangerous stuff the Pirate Party guy is saying here.

  18. “Wikileaks would ALWAYS be needed to expose hidden crimes and show conspiracies.
    A society where no whistle blower is \’needed\’ will never exist. And if it was, it would mean the end of freedom.
    This is dangerous stuff the Pirate Party guy is saying here.”
    I imagine he meant that a truly open and free society wouldn’t need whistle-blowers because crimes wouldn’t be hidden. They’d be as obvious as someone stealing a handbag or setting fire to a building.

  19. @ The Amplifier

    I raised some of that here http://louderthanwar.com/featured/alec-empire-blogs-on-should-music-be-free

    The 3 articles are kind of linked together.

    In a simple way… I am calling for the fans of independent music to create a community that can flourish without governments interfering – I called it a ‘new mindset’. Where people take responsibility for their own actions, instead of just being passive consumers.(by paying the fraction of the costs to the artists, who can then produce more etc…otherwise corporations and governments will decide which art is financially supported, so they will have even more control over the music we listen to.)

  20. @Lucy

    yes, and that kind of society will never exist in reality.

    Wouldn’t it be great if politicians always meant what they said. ;)

    Why am I reminded of politicians who say that a police state is great because there won’t be any crimes anymore…mmmhh

  21. We can already see the impact of illegal filesharing. In the 90’s, an undergroud musician in the UK could surviving from selling 12″s. Now they can’t. They either have to play shows (something not every musician can/wants to do) or get another job which essentially turns their music into a hobby. I know, because I was there in the 90’s and I can see the difference.
    I dislike the idea that music is simply ‘information’ and is therefore free to be shared – without consent – under the guise of “internet freedom”. ALL music even horrendous R&B is somebody’s work. somebody has committed their time to creating this.
    I doubt very much Loz or his supporters work for free.

  22. @Lucy, benzedrine is speed, you’re right of course. Typed it as crack in my haste to answer.
    The rest of the posts have moved onto a debate about internet freedom. Another argument altogether. I do think that Wikileaks, Egypt and other lesser situations have caused enough damage and embarrassment to governments at this point that the internet will be heavily policed in the near future. Lots of people like to believe this is impossible. I don’t believe it is impossible. I also believe that it will be prompted by somebody doing something really stupid in the name of internet freedom (something like wikileaks, only bigger/more damaging) and that internet restriction will happen in response to the public feeling threatened. There won’t be an outcry about freedoms curtailed, because the howling voices will be howling to be ‘protected’ from whatever act it was prompted the restrictions. That’s how governments play these things. They’re not full of idiots, as we would all like to believe. They’re full of very clever, with power, who are determined to use that power to maintain that power. Within a couple of years no-one but the savviest of hackers will be on the internet without a positive, permanent id track. I don’t like that idea, but the actions of a majority of internet users push governments closer to that action every day.

  23. Or not. Hell, what do I know? That’s total conjecture on my part. Anyway, just popping on here again to mention that I’ll be offline until Monday, so I can’t defend anything I’ve written until then. Probably best just to ignore it.

  24. I havent got anything to say here. Seriously this is getting stupid. I can’t take this & your view points & articles seriously any more. So if there’s pirate bay & file sharing in the future then it’s going to be police state world & EU> Your version of the world makes me think of early anime films. Genocyber being 1. Akira. Even Ghost in the shell stand alone complex took the FUTURE perspective on the world & GOT IT RIGHT! Look at egypt. We pushed & we pulled & we pummelled & now the next stage/phase. If you guys want to pull the wool over your eyes & be ignorant about it fine, yet I can’t agree on this any more & to see reason. I’m not defeating. I’m strategical & tactical & I’m walking away when I know I can’t win. I’d rather be “out there” doing things than virtually known anyway.

    Im trying to find an article. When I find it I’ll post it. It maybe too politically “hardcore” for some to :”get” anyway. Now I have to go out & do things in the real world. Bye

  25. Oh sorry – John what are your thoughts? If I may ask you please? I’d like to know & hear the LTW side of things too. Thanks very much. I totally respect what you guys do. Take care. :)

  26. Patrick posted the link above. I thought we should just read directly what the small record shop said.

    Here is the statement on their website:

    “It is with sadness that as of today we are closing down our operation. The sales have dropped radically due to all the illegal file sharing going on, and we can no longer survive.

    We have learned many things and we are proud and happy to have been able to represent so many great labels and artists, and we would like to thank each and everyone of you for a good collaboration and for the good music you have released. We wish you the very best of luck and fortune in the future.

    It is our sincere hope that all artists and musicians around the world start to speak up and fight for their professions and careers, or else we are afraid it’s all gloom and doom from here. Unless you find a way how to monetize chaos.

    This whole scene we are witnessing is a circus where pirates have hi-jacked concepts that are too important to be misused the way they are: democracy, freedom, bright future. These entities, it seems, are beyond their grasp and comprehension, as they truly have absolutely nothing to do with piracy.

    File sharing without the permission of the owner of the copyright is a real killer. It killed us. And it is killing the labels we work with. It is a fight for our livelihoods, and for a free culture production. Because without a strong copyright law we risk to be caught in a patronage and sponsoring web (and that is a kick-back by 200 yrs). We need copyright laws. And we need people who respect the law and pay the author.

    We wish that everyone had the same respect for the creator as the many customers of Dotshop. And to all of you, our loyal music loving customers from all over the world – we thank thee graciously for your support, love and intelligence. Thank you!

    Anders Bersten, on behalf of team Dot.”

  27. These are real people speaking to us here. Anyone who says there is no problem, denies what’s really going on.

    Now read this statement from Pirate Bay after their defeat in court:

    “We have, ourselves, full confidence that if all do their duty, if nothing is neglected, and if the best arrangements are made, as they are being made, we shall prove ourselves once more able to defend our Internets, to ride out the storm of war, and to outlive the menace of tyranny, if necessary for years, if necessary alone.

    Even though large parts of Internets and many old and famous trackers have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Ifpi and all the odious apparatus of MPAA rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the ef-nets and darknets, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Internets, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the baywords.org, we shall fight on the /. and on the digg, we shall fight in the courts; we shall never surrender, and if, which I do not for a moment believe, the Internets or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the Anon Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in Cerf\’s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

    Signed;

    The Pirate Bay Crew – Now until needed.”

  28. Not one word in there about artists or those who provide content. No passion for anything.

    Their ‘New World’… will look like the dark ages.

    Sad stuff. People who disrespect others like that drive the majority of the people towards conservative governments and more regulations.

    The internet should be an experiment that lets people determine their own lives.
    The so called ‘Pirates’ should join some music scenes to learn something about that.

  29. this mskes me wanna fight. i fight dirty. im a samurai. there are things going on behind the scenes which are being put in play. I read today that the the strength in a one man or woman army is important. i wish i could get to see my friends, call them, talk with them on this, yet I fight, i fight every day. those who know me know how hard i fight, work, what the problems are. they are personal. yet this isnt right. isnt it against human rights, not to be acknowledged for your work?

    I meet a band long ago, called one minute silence. their songs équalled awesome. one man army was a song or an album. i forget. i wanna make this album. whatever the critics say. sunday is a special day for me. friends know why. like cobra killer, i dont have money, they had vinyls and samplers. i dont have that either. all i have is my wits, my guts, my own inner strength. i will always believe in what a friend said to me. stay true no matter whatever u do.

    why does everyone whistle when artists, musicians, walk the street. theyre not god or superman or lois lane. theyre people. theyre still citizens of x country. it doesnt matter if they have made it or not. they got where they are today coz they earnt, worked, live for their passion and creativity. that gets my utmost respect and true amazement. more than anyone of u pirates out there.

  30. guys there’s now THREE posts with the same comments on them. NB to admin: please merge them. THANKS!

    i wanted to say. “patrick put the link above” btw some may have misunderstood me. I wanted to post an article. nothing anybody else had stated. yet i need to look for it. i think people would like it. thanks :)

  31. sorry I think we both misunderstood each other here. i didn’t mean THAT 1. I meant 1 I am looking for & I will post it when I find it. I had posted the one I did above yet not read it. I had to go out. I admit I AM the white rabbit. I’m always late for everything. then mad hatter(s) DONT wait. :( yet i hate trains & things you call emergency vehicles with flashing lights on them. i need food, then back to the maelstrom of music making madness :)

  32. As an artist who is already established in the critics circles and who has already achieved the impossible, and all on her own, but who does not sell, but is a big hit in the illegal downloading circuit (we were able to remove the most of those links via a special organization here in the Netherlands, BREIN), and who has a great new album laying on the shelf since summer 2010, because she is still paying off the costs of mastering of the previous album… i must call the so-called “Pirates of Our Time” a bunch of total hypocrites. For it is not the INDUSTRY you kill. It’s the ARTISTS. And i am not even going to start any discussion with you on anything – because in my opinion you are not worthy of a single glance from us, artists. You should be ignored, also by your so-called ‘customers’, because you simply represent the scum of this earth. You are not better than any politicians, governments or corporations, because you play it by THEIR rules. I am amazed at how much i could say about this now… for words just FAIL me, especially at your dare to even suggest that what you are doing is ‘noble’. There’s a term for this… when people start believing the lies they tell themselves and others. Good luck & God bless! I am with Alec Empire’s points of view. In fact: he represents the way i think as well. And if that’s the case : then he is speaking for all artists who want to preserve their work, their integrity, their Soul. Who want to remain FREE in creating. I said enough….

  33. PS: as a musician and artist i never wanted to be part of any politics…. But it looks like establishments like Pirate Party are playing their own noble game at the expense of people like me, who sacrificed their entire lives in order to bring beauty into this world. Why, thank you! What heroes… One big round of applause for all of you!

  34. I was wondering” “Why PIRATES??? What a BAD term for a ‘noble’ cause?” And a friend of mine, Wim Dekker, just said the following (he has been a record store owner / publisher for 20 years / record label owner) : “Why do they call themselves PIRATES? Pirates are THIEFS? Why not call themselves the ROBIN HOODS? Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor.. They should rename themselves to VAMPIRE PARTY, because they parasite on other people’s work, energy and get their money from advertisements. Majority of truly creative people left the music industry… This is the result of the nobility of all… When something is technically possible, it doesn’t mean it’s morally allowed.” Excellent point.

  35. I meant I can’t take these SNAKES & LIARS seriously any more. The pirate bay have been a joke from the start. The fact that not just Alec, even has TIME to kick your ass is saying some thing. A major artist backs this & YOU DARE discredit that? BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES. You are LYING TO US ALL. I have swedish friends. Yet talking about this is like trying to talk about the war with my German friends. I was in a restaurant in August with an american friend & we talked about it. He asked me a question, I gave him an answer. The two guys at the end of the outside plaza, got up from their table & told us to not talk about this in public & they were leaving coz of it.

    Yet artists who ARE WORKING, making their own creations, concentrating on their own materials, want to put things out there, YOUR TRASH is like spitting in our faces, a slap of disrespect & disregard. Simple things in life mean a TRUE HUGE AMOUNT to me. You don’t even take those things on board. Where’s the ARTISTS concern in all of this. I am as deeply upset & angry about this as Elektra. Btw I’d put your album out. :) I’m sick of NO ONE stepping up & doing something. It has to be US the artists who do. Want me to prove you guys wrong? I WILL DO. I don’t threaten people, I make promises. I am 1 person, think resident evil, I’ll bring some of MY friends shall I? I’m sick of this now. I’ve had enough. Stop being tyrants & greedy moguls. LOOK AT OUR VIEW

    I see the future, think about it, how in fact to these people sleep at night? I have EXTREME opinions/am opinionated, yet that comes from how my family is & how I was brought up. They taught me to question things, from a real early age, ask questions, speak my mind. In my mum’s family you speak up or you’re not heard or you don’t get a look in. It’s as simple as that. Not when most gatherings on that side of the world are rare, if full family are 15-20 people at the dinner table any way.

    Yet there’s going to be a HUGE divide. An earthquake/san andreas faultline type busting of this. Where you guys believe that the dinosaur old school world still works & that’s fine by you. Yet there will be NO future or room for evolution or growth if you do that & don’t have renewal. Then there will be the watchers, the angelis, the fallen, the ones who aren’t afraid & will pioneer & change the ways of the world. Enjoy innovation. Life’s a bitch, yet maybe, just maybe, we can tax your kind & yeah your thoughts, they WILL be poisoned….

    I leave with these links (some are in danish) of the danish guy who was indited/convicted coz of “plausable” WMD things. I damn hope he teams up & works directly actively in & with wikileaks. In fact I feel like making it clear that wikileaks should expose MAJOR music corporate bodies who are evil & greedy. Yet exposing is not overthrowing. bye

  36. I meant I can’t take these SNAKES & LIARS seriously any more. The pirate bay have been a joke from the start. The fact that not just Alec, even has TIME to kick your ass is saying some thing. A major artist backs this & YOU DARE discredit that? BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES. You are LYING TO US ALL. I have swedish friends. Yet talking about this is like trying to talk about the war with my German friends. I was in a restaurant in August with an american friend & we talked about it. He asked me a question, I gave him an answer. The two guys at the end of the outside plaza, got up from their table & told us to not talk about this in public & they were leaving coz of it.

    Yet artists who ARE WORKING, making their own creations, concentrating on their own materials, want to put things out there, YOUR TRASH is like spitting in our faces, a slap of disrespect & disregard. Simple things in life mean a TRUE HUGE AMOUNT to me. You don’t even take those things on board. Where’s the ARTISTS concern in all of this. I am as deeply upset & angry about this as Elektra. Btw I’d put your album out. :) I’m sick of NO ONE stepping up & doing something. It has to be US the artists who do. Want me to prove you guys wrong? I WILL DO. I don’t threaten people, I make promises. I am 1 person, think resident evil, I’ll bring some of MY friends shall I? I’m sick of this now. I’ve had enough. Stop being tyrants & greedy moguls. LOOK AT OUR VIEW

    I see the future, think about it, how in fact to these people sleep at night? I have EXTREME opinions/am opinionated, yet that comes from how my family is & how I was brought up. They taught me to question things, from a real early age, ask questions, speak my mind. In my mum’s family you speak up or you’re not heard or you don’t get a look in. It’s as simple as that. Not when most gatherings on that side of the world are rare, if full family are 15-20 people at the dinner table any way.

    Yet there’s going to be a HUGE divide. An earthquake/san andreas faultline type busting of this. Where you guys believe that the dinosaur old school world still works & that’s fine by you. Yet there will be NO future or room for evolution or growth if you do that & don’t have renewal. Then there will be the watchers, the angelis, the fallen, the ones who aren’t afraid & will pioneer & change the ways of the world. Enjoy innovation. Life’s a bitch, yet maybe, just maybe, we can tax your kind & yeah your thoughts, they WILL be poisoned….

    I leave with these links (some are in danish) of the danish guy who was indited/convicted coz of “plausable” WMD things. I damn hope he teams up & works directly actively in & with wikileaks. In fact I feel like making it clear that wikileaks should expose MAJOR music corporate bodies who are evil & greedy. Yet exposing is not overthrowing. bye

    http://www.ellsberg.net/archive/public-accuracy-press-release
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-rp7ZIFqJ4

  37. my server is being stupid & the connex is double posting everything. please ignore the duplicate comments. i can’t add the links in without it doing this. i have to sleep. bye

  38. Two SubMachena songs will feature on George Solar’s upcoming Comfy Dub II compilation in 2011. You can also hear SubMachena’s remix of Gelka’s ‘So Many Ways’ if you know where to find one. BlancoMusic.com have masses of SubMachena material, which will be released at some later date (or, in other words, when we feel it’s worth our while). If you’re pretty smart and know your way around the interwebz, you might have heard some of it. If you’re well-connected and know your dubs, you’ll have been sent some. If you’re a vinyl collector, you’ve probably got the SubMachena remixes of BudNubac tunes that were out in 2006. If you’re not that big into music, you won’t have ever heard of SubMachena, but don’t worry, there are torrents full of Justin Bieber material with your name all over them. Peace.

  39. Oh HELL! Please ignore/delete the last post of mine. That was a genuine mistake, I had two browsers open simultaneously and typed into the wrong comment box. That was supposed to be an answer to a question on a dub commentboard.

  40. @Sean: Hahahaha!!! I quote: “But don\’t worry, there are torrents full of Justin Bieber material with your name all over them. Peace.” —-> Maybe i misunderstood, but is this a promotion trick??? Hahaha! If so, then this reminds me of the heated discussion my manager had with the fans of that one artist (back in 2006? 2007?) I am not even famous, but my stuff has already been falsely used under the name of another Elektra who came into the scene much later than me. (And boy oh boy! What an embarrassment to me!!!) They just refused to let go of the idea that my songs were not her songs, and i got thrown pretty nasty vocabulary all over me … (Passionate creatures, those fans, are!) Of course, the artist and her management knew it all from the start… As far as i know a major label artist. Oh man, it’s really war out there in the music lalaland, isn’t it? Luckily i have never lost my sense of humor… (nor the tough entertainment lawyer, best in this country, who was lucky enough to witness what girls like me had to g(r)ow through….) Peace indeed! ;)

  41. @Elektra Yeah, it’s a sort of reverse-psychology thing. I was trying to suggest that people who are really into music like SubMachena would never be so pathetic as to use torrents. It’s all dirty games, ain’t it? In my defence, it wasn’t just random spam – it was an answer to someone who’d posted on a forum wanting to know where there was a torrentfeed with dub music on it, and what was good to listen to. Just posted it to the wrong place.

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